LadyTevar wrote:I just want to know why you think it matters. To me, it's a non-issue.
Sometimes, it can be very easy for a storyteller to effectively masturbate in front of all the PC's by using an uber-character that the PC's have to petition to solve all their problems.
I've even played in a game like that, and it was my last with that person running it, since it bothered the shit out of me. It was like the PC's were little kids, and as soon as they got a skinned knee (being defeated by Big Evil Overlord), they had to go run and cry for Daddy to save the day (and kill the Big Evil Overlord for them), complete with flashy and appropriately dramatic sound effects and graphics.
However, with all that said, I don't think DS rolls like that.
So CynCat, I can certainly understand you expressing concern over the possibility of this happening in general, but I don't see the point of saying it specifically to DS - unless you were adding this as a caveat in general for other storytellers/GM's to avoid.
LadyTevar wrote:I just want to know why you think it matters. To me, it's a non-issue.
Mary Sues as GM Characters are bad. They're plot bending GM ego inserts and should be kept to a minimum. This one follows the usual patterns and if he's around more than minimally, he'll fuck the game.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
Well from what has been told to me he's more of the "Oh hi I'm the head of the Chantry *heads off into the Umbra not to be seen for several months*". Yeah he's an overpowered old character of DS's but you're jumping at shadows Cat. Lets wait to see if it's actually a problem before we start flailing on the warning bells.
I'm not the one jumping at shadows. He's a Mary Sue. I called him a Mary Sue.
Then DS goes on a rambling defence and Tev says its no different than me having Nalifan around, which would be another Mary Sue situation and just as bad.
The people jumping at shadows are the ones going "Circle the wagons. Don't admit that DS is a Mary Sue or Mary Sues are bad in any way or CC will wreck the game!"
It's a naked GM character situation and the damage that is represents can be minimized by absence, but it is a naked GM character. I said that. I said it was a bad thing. Both of these things are true. No one should be denying them or defending them. They should be acknowledged, reassurances should be made (they have been), and then we move on.
I shouldn't have to be making these posts explaining this. Move on.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
Cynical Cat wrote:The people jumping at shadows are the ones going "Circle the wagons. Don't admit that DS is a Mary Sue or Mary Sues are bad in any way or CC will wreck the game!"
...Wait, what? I didn't say this, and I didn't see anyone else saying this in response to your initial or followup "lol marysue" posts.
But mkay, moving on. Now that my laptop is all better, I'll have a thorough lookthrough of the books this weekend, and see if I can devote the time to playing and touching my potential mage character inappropriately.
rhoenix wrote:
...Wait, what? I didn't say this, and I didn't see anyone else saying this in response to your initial or followup "lol marysue" posts.
Perhaps I'm slightly paranoid. People were defending or denying the Mary Sue was a Mary Sue and that's not the way you deal with it. I was also accused of jumping at shadows, and since I wasn't jumping and there was most definitely substance, that's not true at all.
Games can survive all kinds of mistakes and damages. A little Mary Sue action on the GM's part is quite survivable and the GM is quite within his rights to bend the game a little to have some fun. What a game won't survive is the GM using the Mary Sue as his own personal superhero.
It's not that I'm unforgiving, it's that most of the people who wrong me are unrepentant assholes.
For one I never said that it wasn't a Mary Sue. For two, I admitted that yeah it was a little Mary Sue action. But I also pointed out that so far the character has been presented to us as someone who is only going to show up once in a blue moon. That's not something to be worried about. Are you right to be kind of worried? Yeah, there's a Mary Sue and it's something that should be kept an eye on, but there's no apparent reason for the constant warnings that if he plays a larger role the game will get fucked up. Yeah, we get it, some of us got it quite awhile back when he first posted the thing because many of us are experienced gamers. Right now however, there's no real reason to be worried based on what we know.
On further reflection I would like to refine and change my above point some. DS's Character is not a Mary Sue. He's just an old character of his that happens to be really fucking powerful. That's not what makes a character a Mary Sue. Now if he was a reformed Technocrat who married a reformed Nefandi and thus had access to both of their special powers and who had a whole slew of 1 point flaws that he never actually played out (hint, he doesn't have any Entropy because of a flaw, that's pretty big). Then he'd be a Mary Sue.
The point still stands that he is a potentially game unbalancing character who could fuck things up, so I'm not disagreeing with you there Cat (though I still think you're jumping on something before we even know if it'll be an issue or not). But no, Darek Steele is not a Mary Sue from what we have seen thus far.
I've still got 10 hours of Saturday left...keep your underwear on. I've been busy with work itself.
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
I can't enjoy breakfast now. I just had a horribly scarring mental image of Cyn and how he sleeps. I just lost a few pounds through vomiting though, so thanks...
Saint Annihilus - Patron Saint of Dealing with Stupid Customers
DS? Your Alien Dr. Zoom guy? EeeeeWwwww. I think I've seen 3 day old road kill in the middle of the Iraqi desert that looked better. I really fear what he must smell like dude. Something that looks like that simple cannot have a nice scent. How do they keep the cat from burying him to defend her nose? (Well Tev?) Seriously he looks how camel taste.
Yes, Darke Steele is a Mary Sue. So fucking what? No need to freak just cause Cat made a comment. That was most certainly not Cat being pissed off or freaking out. Y'all should know better having seen Cat pissed off or freaking out. Molecular Scythe yes? Get a fucking grip people what are you gonna do when the MIB kicks down our door and starts shooting? The correct answer is of course shot back and help me evac my library. Speaking of Cats...
Cat wrote: I sleep naked
I thought this was To Much Information til it hit me of course he sleeps naked. All Cats do.
Last edited by frigidmagi on Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
frigidmagi wrote:Character Sheet incoming. Couple of things first.
Nitram wrote:Reality Deviants
I thought we were Reality Deviants?
We are. The Technocracy has a tendency to be a bit hipocritical when it comes to that. The Traditions, the Marauders, the Nephandi? We're Reality Deviants, anomolies to be studied and then put down. Technically they're 'deviants' as well, but don't tend to see themselves as such. They're the ones who are often trying to change the perceptions of Sleepers through the miracles of science and keep the Sleepers in their place as to not mess up their perfect plan. Of course this later came to bite them in the ass in the later parts of the timeline where they basically painted themselves into a corner by making reality so static that anything they tried to come up with ended up being just as vulgar as the trad mages. Suckers...
Saint Annihilus - Patron Saint of Dealing with Stupid Customers
Background
Dreams 1
Library 3
Avatar 2
Talisman 1 (a bronze amulet, ability to retrace Jones path and make his footsteps visible to him)
Spheres
Force 3 (Six Shoot revolver)
Prime 2 (Old Brown Hat)
Time 2 (analog Stopwatch)
Flaws:
Resentful Mentor -1
Some wizards just don't like apprentices that keep asking "Why?" and don't appreciate classic rock. Sad really.
Enemies -3
Wereshark Inbetweener:
While no one calls a Wereshark in human form a looker, Mickle is ugly even for them and his personality makes his face look good. Because of this he's resorted to huh... direct means of getting a human mates. Jones objected to this and set him on fire and ran him over with a truck during one of his attempts. Mickle healed like were's tend to do, but that fucking hurt! And he hasn't forgotten it either. He ever gets a chance he's gonna see what Jones taste like, humans have to many legs anyways.
Venezuelan Army Col
Colonel Araque has lot to thank Boxer Jones for. He's sure he's a tomb robber, a thief of cultural artifacts of value to the indigenous peoples of Venezuela! it also stings that Jones led him into a chase into Colombia
where he almost got arrested by the Colombian Army, who thinks he was trying to smuggle weapons to FARC. While he avoided arrest and any impact to his career the next miss that that damn tomb raider led him into (on purpose to be sure!) has made Araque determined to see the bastard American rotting in a cell for the rest of his life!
Mild Phobia Snakes -1
Merits:
Iron Will +3
Background: Boxer, has he rather forcefully demands he be called, is the son of a line adventurers and scholars. This is complicated by the fact that he didn't know any of those adventurers and scholars. His father and mother were always in one form of trouble (his mother was an "unorthodox Anthropologist", his father a "seeker of knowledge") or another and to keep him out of it, he was raised by his uncle and aunt. Good,honest folks who lived outside of the town of Norman, Oklahoma on a farm and taught Literature classes at Oklahoma University. On this farm they raised chicken, cows and dogs. Boxer dogs. Boxer Jones was often trailed by 2 or 3 of the dogs no matter where he went. A rough and rather mouthy child to his peers, Boxer often ended up having to solve his problems with his hands. His Uncle taught to Box both to keep him from killing anyone and from being killed. From the dogs and the fighting came the nickname.
He saw his parents fairly often, they stopped by every chance they could get and often took him on summer trips as well as letters every week. When he was 17 the letters stopped coming. When he was 18 they held a modest double funeral and his Uncle, Henry took him up into the attic to look at effects that were his according to his father's will. An old brown hat, a leather jacket, a six shoot revolver, an analogue stopwatch and 3 journals written in code. The jacket had been his father's. The analogue stopwatch his maternal grandfather's, a bomber pilot in WWII for the RAF. The pistol and the hat were from his grandfather. Both the jacket and the hat fit like they had been tailored to him.
Jones went off to college taking most of his inherented relics with him. He doubled majored in Anthropology and Archeology. Only God above and the Devil Below know what he would have done then, because in his second year of college he awakened. Alone with an old Idol in the library one night when he was attacked by unknown persons. Maybe it had something to do with his parents. Maybe it was about the idol. Maybe it was frat boys who had had taken some bad blow. No one knows, but what is know is Jones got stabbed that that pushed him to break point that awoken him. Lucky the nearest mage was actually the bloody Librarian!
The Librarian managed to step in before things got completely and irreversibly out of hand (the firefighters however still swear there was something odd about that fire). Jones would never even know his name. One name he would learn all to well was that of his "Pater." His Hermetic Mentor, Pater Fellspell. Greatly talented, extremely self confident, powerful, knowledgeable, rigid, hidebound, pompous, self righteous, inflexible and insufferable and in Jone's opinion those were his good points. Fellspell and Jones hit it off. Like gas and open flame. Jones spent 3 galling, bile tasting years apprenticed to Fellspell. Fellspell doesn't have much fun either. Jones in his opinion was bright, driven, disrespectful, undisciplined, sullen, stubborn and idealistic to the point of insanity. Jones left a token of goodwill in thanks for the lessons. It took Fellspell two days to find where he hid the brick that had made the entire tower break out into "For Those About to Rock."
Fellspell may be somewhat bitter.
Darek Steele thought it was the funniest thing in years he seen an apprentice do and so offered him a place. That, and he thought it would be amusing to further piss off Fellspell, whom he disliked.
Jones belief is that in the past, the relics, the ruins, the forgotten leftovers of brighter (or darker), happier (or scarier) ages lay secrets that can help. Not just the traditions but humanity as a whole. Due to this he tends to go places he shouldn't and hunt for knowledge that his elders rather he left buried at times. He's gone on two trips so far. Once to Ethiopia, that worked out pretty well and the other to Venezulia that didn't (lost in that damn swamp for days!). He back at the Chantry to rest, recuperate and figure out just what went wrong... Damn he's gonna need a drink.
------------------
How's that?
(Holy crap I'm better at fighting then the bloody assassin mage!)
Fixed spelling and formatting errors cause they were annoying me....
(Everyone is a bloody critic)
Last edited by frigidmagi on Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:18 am, edited 5 times in total.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
The game is set in the early part of the year 2000. Early, as in end of Winter, beginning of Spring - I'm thinking March sounds good.
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
What Charon said. You need to pick a specialty in your Lore Knowledge. Unless you just want it to be general Lore...that's not suggested...
I fixed some spelling and formatting errors....especially Steele's name....
Damn it man, spell his name right! It's Darek (pronounced Day-rick) now Darke!
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
And it's his name! Do not disrespect a man's name. Especially when said man is capable of turning you into a sentient lawn chair (despite the Paradox involved...).
And hey...you said about the smell..I figured I may as well carter to your whims..
Allen Thibodaux | Archmagus | Supervillain | Transfan | Trekker | Warsie |
"Then again, Detective....how often have you dreamed of hearing your father's voice once more? Of feeling your mother's touch?" - Ra's Al Ghul
"According to the Bible, IHVH created the Universe in six days....he obviously didn't know what he was doing." - Darek Steele bani Order of Hermes.
DS's Golden Rule: I am not a bigot, I hate everyone equally. | corollary: Some are more equal than others.
