Obama defends abuse photos U-turn

N&P: Discussion of news headlines and politics.

Moderator: frigidmagi

Post Reply
User avatar
The Minx
Pleasure Kitten
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm
17

#1 Obama defends abuse photos U-turn

Post by The Minx »

Link
US President Barack Obama has said the release of more photos of prisoner abuse by US soldiers is "of no benefit" and may inflame opinion against the US.

The pictures were not "sensational" and every case of abuse had been dealt with by the military, with action taken where appropriate, he said.

The White House previously said it would not fight a court ruling ordering the release of the pictures.

US civil liberties activists accused Mr Obama of adopting Bush-era policies.

The pictures were due to be released by 28 May, according to the court order.

The order was issued by an appeals court in September 2008, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

'Disappointed'

The US defence department had been preparing to release the images, reportedly taken in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the dispute could now end up before the US Supreme Court.

Speaking outside the White House, Mr Obama said he would not tolerate the abuse of prisoners.

However, he had, he said, directed his legal team to fight the court-ordered release of the photos because he was concerned they might "inflame anti-American opinion and put our troops in greater danger".

The Pentagon had not sought to conceal anything, he added, and appropriate action had been taken against individuals involved in abuses. The president had been advised against publication by Defence Secretary Robert Gates, Centcom commander Gen David Petraeus and the commander of US forces in Iraq, Gen Ray Odierno, a Pentagon official said.

The ACLU said it was "surprised and disappointed" by Mr Obama's decision and that it would continue to fight for the photographs' release.

"The Obama administration's adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president's stated desire to restore the rule of law, to revive our moral standing in the world and to lead a transparent government," said Anthony Romero, the group's executive director.

The BBC's Richard Lister in Washington says that although President Obama has insisted on the need for open government, it appears that on this issue he has been persuaded that - for now at least - such transparency risks doing more harm than good.
US MEDIA REACTIONS TO OBAMA'S DECISION

Slowly but surely, Obama is owning the cover-up of his predecessors' war crimes. But covering up war crimes, refusing to prosecute them, promoting those associated with them, and suppressing evidence of them are themselves violations of Geneva and the UN Convention. So Cheney begins to successfully co-opt his successor.

The Atlantic Monthly's Andrew Sullivan, an Obama supporter during the election, is disappointed by the actions of the president he backed.

The photos of abuse at Abu Ghraib did aid our enemies and put the lives of US soldiers at risk. We can assume that another round of photos would have had the same effect. That is, the only salutary effect of such a move would have been to soothe the consciences of American liberals who suspect American troops to be war criminals and desperately want the pictures to prove it... There are elements on the left that would expose the president to political danger, and the troops to mortal danger, only to see the last administration implicated in any kind of abuse. The president should be praised for resisting those elements.

Neo-conservative Michael Goldfarb, who worked for John McCain during the presidential election, hails his former opponent in the Weekly Standard.

I'm speculating, but the White House and Pentagon must not have cherished the idea of having their new start in Afghanistan undermined by the release of pictures that would further inflame the Muslim world. That's not a defense of the decision. I think it's a bad one. But it's an ominous decision for reasons that go beyond upholding the spirit of FOIA.

David Kurtz, at Talking Points Memo, thinks that the decision means there is a "long slog ahead" for the US in Afghanistan.

It isn't the photos; it is the acts themselves that put US troops in danger. The abuse is widely known among Iraqis, and those inclined to act don't need photographic evidence as justification.

So, argues FireDogLake's Gregg Levine, why not publish the photographs?

All statements from Barack Obama come with an expiration date. All of them.

Conservative Jim Geraghty, writing in the National Review, gives President Obama little credit, although he does back the president's decision.
So, now we're back to the secrecy and "do not release information which might embarrass us, even if it is true and reveals illegal behavior."

The Minx is not happy.
User avatar
frigidmagi
Dragon Death-Marine General
Posts: 14757
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 am
19
Location: Alone and unafraid

#2

Post by frigidmagi »

Back to? Young Lady we never left. We've been doing this kind of thing throughout the Cold War and in Korea and Veitnam went to greater lengths to hide things that would be embarrassing.

From what is being said, the people who are in the photos are being punished. That's really what matters, not whether or not we get to see more photos of Iraqi men in dog collars being dragged around on the internet. Now if someone finds proof that people aren't being punished, that's a different thing indeed.

Furthermore, what cover-up? A cover-up would mean trying to deny that the crimes happened and making sure no one was punished (expect a fall guy or two). That's not happening here, it's just the media crying that they don't get more shock value photos.
"it takes two sides to end a war but only one to start one. And those who do not have swords may still die upon them." Tolken
User avatar
fgalkin
Initiate
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:10 pm
19
Contact:

#3

Post by fgalkin »

What possible purpose would releasing the photos serve, aside from satisfying some people's voyeuristic desires, or adding more stuff to put up on anti-American posters during protests? We already know that there has been torture, we are told the perpetrators are being punished (do we know they are punished? Not really, but then we wouldn't even if we saw the photos).

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
The Minx
Pleasure Kitten
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm
17

#4

Post by The Minx »

Does blocking the release of these photos really reduce anti-American sentiments? I don't think so. Actually, I think it may hurt the present administration's credibility regarding their attempts to come clean about what has been going on and correcting it.

We know that torture has taken place, and these photos would be released with the understanding that these are past events. Not releasing them is bad PR, especially if it goes to the Supreme Court.
User avatar
fgalkin
Initiate
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:10 pm
19
Contact:

#5

Post by fgalkin »

The Minx wrote:Does blocking the release of these photos really reduce anti-American sentiments? I don't think so. Actually, I think it may hurt the present administration's credibility regarding their attempts to come clean about what has been going on and correcting
Can you put credibility on a poster as you protest outside the embassy? The pictures cause a visceral response in those who see them, thus they are more effective at causing emotions- it's basic psychology. Note that nobody said anything about REDUCING anti-American sentiment, merely avoiding triggering a new wave of it.
We know that torture has taken place, and these photos would be released with the understanding that these are past events. Not releasing them is bad PR, especially if it goes to the Supreme Court.
Knowledge that they are past events does nothing to calm the reaction one would get when one sees the photos. Releasing them would be an utter PR disaster.

Hell, most people don't even know that the photos were going to be released until now. The media does not focus on something if it doesn't have juicy visuals to go along with it. How is releasing them a good thing, again?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
The Minx
Pleasure Kitten
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm
17

#6

Post by The Minx »

fgalkin wrote:Can you put credibility on a poster as you protest outside the embassy? The pictures cause a visceral response in those who see them, thus they are more effective at causing emotions- it's basic psychology. Note that nobody said anything about REDUCING anti-American sentiment, merely avoiding triggering a new wave of it.
No, but you can use credibility to convince people that you are serious abut mending relations.

This reminds me too much of when people were blaming Newsweek for the anti-American sentiments that arose when the last set of photos was released.

fgalkin wrote:Knowledge that they are past events does nothing to calm the reaction one would get when one sees the photos. Releasing them would be an utter PR disaster.
The last time this kind of furor happened was when people were denying anything wrong was taking place and protecting people from being prosecuted for what happened.
User avatar
fgalkin
Initiate
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:10 pm
19
Contact:

#7

Post by fgalkin »

The Minx wrote:
fgalkin wrote:Can you put credibility on a poster as you protest outside the embassy? The pictures cause a visceral response in those who see them, thus they are more effective at causing emotions- it's basic psychology. Note that nobody said anything about REDUCING anti-American sentiment, merely avoiding triggering a new wave of it.
No, but you can use credibility to convince people that you are serious abut mending relations.

This reminds me too much of when people were blaming Newsweek for the anti-American sentiments that arose when the last set of photos was released.
What is more useful for mending relations- a set of photos made public or the knowledge that steps are being taken to correct it?

fgalkin wrote:Knowledge that they are past events does nothing to calm the reaction one would get when one sees the photos. Releasing them would be an utter PR disaster.
The last time this kind of furor happened was when people were denying anything wrong was taking place and protecting people from being prosecuted for what happened.[/quote]
And how many people were outraged about the denials specifically as opposed to the fact that it was taking place?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
The Minx
Pleasure Kitten
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm
17

#8

Post by The Minx »

fgalkin wrote:What is more useful for mending relations- a set of photos made public or the knowledge that steps are being taken to correct it?
These are not mutually exclusive. In fact, owning up about the former can be seen as part and parcel of the latter.
fgalkin wrote:And how many people were outraged about the denials specifically as opposed to the fact that it was taking place?
Again, not mutually exclusive.
User avatar
fgalkin
Initiate
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:10 pm
19
Contact:

#9

Post by fgalkin »

The Minx wrote:
fgalkin wrote:What is more useful for mending relations- a set of photos made public or the knowledge that steps are being taken to correct it?
These are not mutually exclusive. In fact, owning up about the former can be seen as part and parcel of the latter.
fgalkin wrote:And how many people were outraged about the denials specifically as opposed to the fact that it was taking place?
Again, not mutually exclusive.
One causes more good than harm, the other is a PR disaster. A list of people prosecuted will do the White House far more good than any set of graphic photos.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
The Minx
Pleasure Kitten
Posts: 1581
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:29 pm
17

#10

Post by The Minx »

fgalkin wrote:One causes more good than harm, the other is a PR disaster. A list of people prosecuted will do the White House far more good than any set of graphic photos.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Again, they are not mutually exclusive - it's not either one or the other. As for PR disasters, how about the harm of this issue going to the supreme court and the administration trying to block it?
Post Reply