TGODs and 'Wank'; How Much is Too Much?

[Elheru Aran]

Ahem. Observing the recent antics in Testing, and stuff that's occurred on the AIM chat, I couldn't help but wonder about the above. Now, in TGODs, a certain amount of wank is inevitable, certainly. The problem is when it becomes too much; wank for wankery's sake.

You've seen it before, I'm sure... a player character resolutely refuses to die despite everything flung at him, an army conjures weapons out of the blue or all the 'dead' soldiers regenerate and jump back up, the Paladin who got spit-roasted by a demon cuts his way out of the beastie's belly, that kind of thing... that kind of thing.

Indugling in this is one thing. However, the question is, how much is too much?

Bear in mind that this only asks the question in regard to TGODs; STGOD's are built to prevent said wank from occurring, while TGODs are much more informal, with the only control being whomever began it, often (notably in Testing) not even that.

Hmmm... I'd keep going but then I'd start expounding my own opinion on it... I think I'll wait on that till I hear more.

So... thoughts? comments?

(BTW: I was advised to place this here. If it should be somewhere else, then be as kind as to punt it...)

[Ace Pace]

Wank, is purely on a case by case basis.

We have Surlys...Solaris, I have had, in a few private TGODs, a fucking Galaxy sized vessal.

But it balences out, wank is wank only when not supported by actual characterisation.

When someone attempts to wank with it being out of place, see, a sedate TGOD, it hurts the entire story. When its basicly a full scale battle of spam, its nothing weird.

Thats why the TGOD that turned into a STGOD here survived, it was rational and didn't break scale.

[Narsil]

There are exceptions to the 'Death' thing:

A Timelord player (who was timelord from the beginning) can regenerate from death, provided that he remembers to only be capable of it 13 times...

Provided that it's possible and plausible by the canon of the chosen universe, you can do practically anything.

KAN's turning into Perfect Cell in order to defeat my use of Discworld Magic was wank.

And Robert's use of the Force as a one-energy-beats-all is wank. Such as when he attacked my Eldritch Knight character and claimed complete victory.

Oh, and Omnipotence Wanking. Omnipotence is going way too far in a TGOD.

[Elheru Aran]

As for how I see it: If your 'wank' fits into the scenario at hand and advances the overall story, such as it is, then it is acceptable, i.e. Pcm becoming a Space Marine Dreadnought for a barfight, in a TGOD that occurs in a bar, and furthermore is being participated in by a large number of 40K'ers, who will be aware of effective ways to deal with a Dreadnought. On the other hand, a fullblown Archmage joining a group of young adventurers and doing magic all the bloody time? No go.

Oh, and one thing that *really* gets my goat; indiscriminate self-resurrection. You blast someone, he bounces right back up and declares that he/she was either entirely unharmed or only slightly injured, or in some cases, even more powerful. Get real.

EDIT: If you're going to do that... at least have the courtesy to come back as a different character, and act as such... not merely a carbon-copy of yours with a different haircut. You get the idea.

[Ace Pace]

There are exceptions to the 'Death' thing:

A Timelord player (who was timelord from the beginning) can regenerate from death, provided that he remembers to only be capable of it 13 times...

Provided that it's possible and plausible by the canon of the chosen universe, you can do practically anything.

KAN's turning into Perfect Cell in order to defeat my use of Discworld Magic was wank.

And Robert's use of the Force as a one-energy-beats-all is wank. Such as when he attacked my Eldritch Knight character and claimed complete victory.

Oh, and Omnipotence Wanking. Omnipotence is going way too far in a TGOD.

Hypocrite. A timelord coming back perfectly, regardless of limit, is no differant then any of the other wanks you mentioned.

[Narsil]

Hypocrite. A timelord coming back perfectly, regardless of limit, is no differant then any of the other wanks you mentioned.

I didn't say come back perfectly, did I?

Point out 'Perfectly' in that text...

[Ra]

I think my opinion on the matter is pretty clear. Insta-resurrection. When your very essence is devoured, and then you get capped, and even then your entire army is destroyed, but then come back "stronger than ever". Jesus. I know I'm guilty of my fair share of wank, but what the Christ.

[Ace Pace]

Hypocrite. A timelord coming back perfectly, regardless of limit, is no differant then any of the other wanks you mentioned.

I didn't say come back perfectly, did I?

Point out 'Perfectly' in that text...

Nitpicking are we.

How is coming back, in the same manner, anyway less wankish then just not dying?

Both are very wrong in a non uberwanked setting.

[Narsil]

How is coming back, in the same manner, anyway less wankish then just not dying?

That's just it, Regeneration isn't 'back-from-death' as much as 'cheating death'

So it just is 'not dying'

Both are very wrong in a non uberwanked setting.

You forget that Timelords are severely effected by Regeneration... right down to the personality. It's just the same as spawning an entirely new character in the place of the old one's corpse.

[Elheru Aran]

Both are very wrong in a non uberwanked setting.

You forget that Timelords are severely effected by Regeneration... right down to the personality. It's just the same as spawning an entirely new character in the place of the old one's corpse.

No, because a Timelord is *still* a Timelord when he regenerates. He's just got a different skin-- so what? Nothing else's changed. He still has his toys, his TARDIS, etc. Your argument doesn't work.

Now, if said Timelord became an ordinary human upon regeneration, then you might have something...

[Narsil]

No, because a Timelord is *still* a Timelord when he regenerates. He's just got a different skin-- so what? Nothing else's changed. He still has his toys, his TARDIS, etc. Your argument doesn't work.

But it's canon. Which is the important thing. What I have a problem with, is people who violate it and flaunt it like it's a freaking joke.

[Elheru Aran]

No, because a Timelord is *still* a Timelord when he regenerates. He's just got a different skin-- so what? Nothing else's changed. He still has his toys, his TARDIS, etc. Your argument doesn't work.

But it's canon. Which is the important thing. What I have a problem with, is people who violate it and flaunt it like it's a freaking joke.

Canon? Not a problem, long as you want to play one in a Who-verse TGOD. If you want to play one in a DnD/mediaeval-tech fantasy TGOD, though, expect people to get offended. This discussion is not merely about how much wank is acceptable; it's also about how much wank is acceptable *in context*. Playing a Timelord is fine if you're in a sci-fi setting or where the other players are wanking at a similar level, but I don't recommend trying it otherwise...

[Narsil]

I use whatever character suits the story, mate. I'd play an Eldritch Knight for Fantasy. A Timelord, Jedi or Fighter Pilot in a Sci-Fi setting. I'd play a god in a divine setting. I'd play a Vampire for horror settings, and a hacker for cyberpunk.

Trust me... I was using the fact that Doctor Who or similar regenerations are admissable, where they count. You wouldn't claim that a Wizard wouldn't be capable of unleashing a fireball, would you? (unless it's in a universe where Wizards are adamantly stated to be incapable of fireball spells)

[Elheru Aran]

The problem is, using a character that is too powerful doesn't work. To draw an analogy; it's like exploiting little-known stats in the DnD handbooks in order to draw up a deliberately broken player character that nobody can touch as much as they may try. It won't get you anywhere as all the other players get pissed and go all-out on you. Even if your character is legitimate, having him ridiculously overpowered compared to the other players is still in extremely bad taste.

Now, a lot of this depends on *how* you play the character... for example, say you're a level 50 wizard; highly powerful, obviously. However, play him with restraint, not doing any extreme spells unless *asked* to, and basically just running along with what the group members are doing in terms of power level, and all's cool. But simply transporting people around with a snap of the fingers? Gesturing and blowing down walls? Conjuring armies from ants when a few brigands hop out of the trees, when everybody else just pulls swords? Bad.

[Narsil]

But simply transporting people around with a snap of the fingers? Gesturing and blowing down walls? Conjuring armies from ants when a few brigands hop out of the trees, when everybody else just pulls swords? Bad.

I prefer to use a well-aimed Fireball spell to take out their ranged group or at least stun them slightly... and then a Transformation spell...

Blowing down walls? Why not dimension-door past it, or use a spider crawl spell. The freaking 'Blast away at whole buildings' got old really quickly with me, I prefer to use subtlety...

I wouldn't teleport anyone about unless asked to, however. It gets annoying and disconcerting for allies, and if it's an enemy, I'm liable to not have enough concentration to.

[Elheru Aran]

But simply transporting people around with a snap of the fingers? Gesturing and blowing down walls? Conjuring armies from ants when a few brigands hop out of the trees, when everybody else just pulls swords? Bad.

I prefer to use a well-aimed Fireball spell to take out their ranged group or at least stun them slightly... and then a Transformation spell...

Blowing down walls? Why not dimension-door past it, or use a spider crawl spell. The freaking 'Blast away at whole buildings' got old really quickly with me, I prefer to use subtlety...

I wouldn't teleport anyone about unless asked to, however. It gets annoying and disconcerting for allies, and if it's an enemy, I'm liable to not have enough concentration to.

Irrevelant. It's still too powerful for the average mediaeval TGOD around here, or at least the sort I prefer to participate in. TGOD's are by their very nature without rules; however, it is courteous to adhere to the general power level exhibited by other players. I.E., if they're all around lvl 12-15, try not to be any more than a lvl 16 at most. When shit like the above gets pulled in a group like that-- why bother with the TGOD at all, when it'll be you doing everything better and with more power than everybody else?

The object is NOT to achieve victory or to one-up your fellow players; now, if it's a mutual testicle-stomp like what happens in Testing, then that's fine, but in something where there's a clearly indicated direction and a desire for storyline development, it doesn't do to break the story.

[Ace Pace]

This is the key differance between a TGOD and an RP.

Which is why TGODs used to = testing, while everything else is in the RP forum.

So new idea.

No more TGODs in the kitchen, mark them as Role Playing OR set the scene.