Battletech with the Original Spirit but Better Science

[Hotfoot]

Alright...so wait...the weapons need tweaking for physics reasons...and even if we allow that that matters at all...where do energy shields and psykers come into this?

The fact that the way Battletech Armor works is crazy might have something to do with it. Machine guns that can tear apart heavily armored war machines?

The other part is just having some justification for why 'mechs would be preferable over tanks as war machines, rather than just waving your hands around and pretending like it doesn't exist. If anyone has any better ideas than what I've thrown out, please, do share.

[White Haven]

@Stofsk Eh, if the setting supported that, that'd work, but tanks are as large as mechs, and the higher-end ones can and do mount fusion plants. That somewhat negates one of the purposes of battletech tanks, which is to put treads on the ground on a budget. That's the real reason many tanks use internal combusion, as opposed to a fusion plant.

Edit: @Hotfoot: Flexibility. Mechs do some things tanks can't. Tanks can fight at least close to as well as mechs in the BT-verse, but they can't go vertical, they can't handle /as/ crazy terrain, they aren't designed as all-purpose hazardous-environment combat units, they can't manipulate objects, in the case of a mech with hands. In fact, there's a mech specifically designed for double-duty use as a construction unit, for garrisoning Periphery worlds. It's fairly easy to blow a section off of a mech, but depending on the design, it can be quite hard to put it completely out of service.

[SirNitram]

Alright...so wait...the weapons need tweaking for physics reasons...and even if we allow that that matters at all...where do energy shields and psykers come into this?

The fact that the way Battletech Armor works is crazy might have something to do with it. Machine guns that can tear apart heavily armored war machines?

I'm willing to bet it's quite possible to build a machinegun that'll carve up vehicle armour. Given we can make sniper rifles that will go through, a vehicle-mounted rapid-fire gun should be easy.

The other part is just having some justification for why 'mechs would be preferable over tanks as war machines, rather than just waving your hands around and pretending like it doesn't exist. If anyone has any better ideas than what I've thrown out, please, do share.

Better armour density. Cost. Jumpjets. These are all very tangible. As someone who always favoured tanks when he played, trust me, all exist.

EDIT: Misread the latter half. Mech advantages: Crit sustaintability(Will function without arm, whatever). Heat Sinks(A very, very real advantage). Fusion.

If you want to emphasize fusion, remove the option to put it into heavy tanks.

[Hotfoot]

Dozens of settings maintain gritty feel and mechs. They do this by not stressing over calculations or inherent weaknesses, but by delivering the POINT: War in it's nasty, bloody, brutish nature, and giant walkers. They don't need shields, or psychics, or giant red goo monsters who protect the Mech. They simply stop stressing and go forward.

You wanted the 'feel' of BattleTech, and Haven and I are being blunt: You are taking the feel and setting and violating it with a barbed-wire dildo.

That sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. Most mecha settings are far from gritty. The only ones I can think of off that top of my head are a handful of Anime shows like Armored Troopers Votom, then there's Heavy Gear, which is largely based on the above.

Most of the others are a bit more cinematic, if you will. Mekton Zeta, Jovian Chronicles, Gundam, and so on.

As far as tanks and mechs and fusion reactors, consider the following:
-Tanks have more internal space than Mechs by virtue of design.
-Original Btech had tanks that were better than 'mechs.
-The only reason that changed was for "balance". Smoke and mirrors were applied.

Concerning the bit about machineguns that can take down heavy armor, they don't exist. Light armor, sure. A chaingun can tear apart light armor, but a 30mm won't do much to a MBT. Remember that even the largest "sniper" rifle we have won't wreck heavy armor.

If we focus on fusion, again, we could make it so only a highly trained individual can manage feeding more fuel with keeping the heat output at managable levels, and a direct mental link (note: does not have to be psychic, something similar to the current neurohelmet system).

[SirNitram]

Dozens of settings maintain gritty feel and mechs. They do this by not stressing over calculations or inherent weaknesses, but by delivering the POINT: War in it's nasty, bloody, brutish nature, and giant walkers. They don't need shields, or psychics, or giant red goo monsters who protect the Mech. They simply stop stressing and go forward.

You wanted the 'feel' of BattleTech, and Haven and I are being blunt: You are taking the feel and setting and violating it with a barbed-wire dildo.

That sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. Most mecha settings are far from gritty. The only ones I can think of off that top of my head are a handful of Anime shows like Armored Troopers Votom, then there's Heavy Gear, which is largely based on the above.

Most of the others are a bit more cinematic, if you will. Mekton Zeta, Jovian Chronicles, Gundam, and so on.

As far as tanks and mechs and fusion reactors, consider the following:
-Tanks have more internal space than Mechs by virtue of design.
-Original Btech had tanks that were better than 'mechs.
-The only reason that changed was for "balance". Smoke and mirrors were applied.

Concerning the bit about machineguns that can take down heavy armor, they don't exist. Light armor, sure. A chaingun can tear apart light armor, but a 30mm won't do much to a MBT. Remember that even the largest "sniper" rifle we have won't wreck heavy armor.

If we focus on fusion, again, we could make it so only a highly trained individual can manage feeding more fuel with keeping the heat output at managable levels, and a direct mental link (note: does not have to be psychic, something similar to the current neurohelmet system).

Indeed, we can do that one.

And as for 'No machinegun can go through MBT armour'... There's this aircraft called a 'Warthog'...

[Hotfoot]

There is a rather large difference between 30mm minigun firing DU projectiles that lowers the airspeed of the vehicle and a man-portable weapon and you know it.

[SirNitram]

There is a rather large difference between 30mm minigun firing DU projectiles that lowers the airspeed of the vehicle and a man-portable weapon and you know it.

Then toss out Mech-hurting guns for infantry. Make 'em use RPG-7's like we did when I was a lad!

[White Haven]

So...you're claiming that a half-ton weapon system with a half-ton-plus ammo bin is a 'man-portable' machine gun?

[SirNitram]

So...you're claiming that a half-ton weapon system with a half-ton-plus ammo bin is a 'man-portable' machine gun?

Half-ton? And the GAU-8 AVENGER cannon from an A-10 masses a mere 281 kilos(618 lbs), well under the 'half-ton' limit.

[Hotfoot]

So...you're claiming that a half-ton weapon system with a half-ton-plus ammo bin is a 'man-portable' machine gun?

Actually, it's an array of machine guns, which have calibers that range from 12.7mm to 30mm. Take in mind that half ton of ammo equates to a grand total of 480 shots. Or so.

Anyway, I think we've got a good start: fusion reactors are complex things, and keeping them under control requires intense training and skill.

Next up, the weapons. I'm thinking for kinetics, lighter caliber weapons should be more rapid fire, the larger bore weapons be more like single shot. Gauss cannons are replaced with railguns. End of story. Missiles should come in two types: unguided swarms and guided high payload. As far as energy weapons, I'm not sure. Part of me wants to make them low damage high range high accuracy, with PPCs being more damaging but shorter range weapons (yeah, I know, but then I'm wanting to make AC/20's longer range as well).

Now, as far as armor, do we keep the onion peeling, or do we go for something a little....easier to deal with?

Me? I'm one for overpenetration, but that's me. I'd like hugely damaging shots to tear holes into the frames of the mech.

[Josh]

On the setting: the original Battletech in many ways replicated the Knights of the Air romanticism of WWI combat aviation. Victor Milan even made the nod to that with his 'Here's to the Dead Already' scene in the second Cabelleros novel.

If you read the earlier mass war novels (especially Heir to the Dragon), armor and infantry did handle the brunt of the fighting, with something like nine to one ratios of conventional forces to mech forces in some of the scenes, IIRC. The way mechs were portrayed was as the arm of decision in the fashion of a modern armored division. The US Army cavalry regiments would probably be the closest parallel.

So there's two routes to take it, depending on how mech-intensive you want the setting to be.